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This is the talk page for discussing the page, Stoic of Prophecy.

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Magical Members

With this, shouldnt we add other Magicals like Breaker etc? ----SharkTenjo 10:42, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Breaker the Magical Warrior is a valid member of the Magical/[魔導] archetype. It would be better if this was discussed this on the Talk Page of the Magical article.

I found the reason why the other monsters with [魔導] in their name are not added to the archetype. Please read the trivia on the Magical page.  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 11:22, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

But apparently this now appears as a support for the "Magicals" ----SharkTenjo 12:16, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Let us continue this on the Magical article's Talk Page.  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 12:45, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Better Translated Name

The word [魔導術士] as a whole is usually translated as magician or warlock. Translating it as "Magical Technician" sounds weird. I suggest that this card's name be changed to "Magical Warlock", "Magical Magician" sounds too redundant.  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 15:38, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Jutsushi is a user/practitioner of some technique or art. If we separate them it's Mado (Magical) and Jutsushi (Technique-user, i.e. technician). There isn't a word such as Madojutsu, so they are separated into Mado and Jutsushi, not together like Majutsu, so it can't be properly translated. MadRest 18:21, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

I can agree that the word [魔導術士] is better translated as practitioner of magic. The word technician in English is used in a very different way. Then, I suggest "Magical Practitioner" as the name of this card.  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 18:42, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

"Hanged Man of Prophecy"???

What evidence do we have that supports this move from [魔導術士ラパンデ] (Magical Practitioner Le Pendu) ---> "Hanged Man of Prophecy"?  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 13:27, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

We know that La Pendu is French for The Hanged Man, and 3 of the 4 TCG names we have for the "Prophecy" members have been translated as the English names for the Tarot of Marseilles. While admittedly there is no way to accurately guess what names Konami will choose, it has been a long held practice on the site to choose names based on those of existing members in the TCG. We are currently following this convention for the new "Atlanteans", and a good number of Duel Terminal cards. Are you suggesting we stop doing this all together, or are you calling for a specific exception for "Prophecy" monsters? --Golden Key (talkcontribs) 13:54, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

I am well aware on the long held practices of this Wikia. That is why I can accept the naming changes that we have for the Atlanteans and the Chronomaly monsters.

I am calling for a specific exception for the Prophecy monsters. Unlike some of the previous naming conventions, Konami (TCG) shown us that they don't just follow the English name for the Tarot cards. To make matters worse, I found out that the word "Amores" has more to do with Greek or Spanish and nothing to do with French.

Most of all, I'm also worried about what will become of the "Magical Spellbook Writer Batel" article. That card is definitely part of the Spellbook archetype and can be searched by Spellbook of Secrets. I'm not sure how you guys want to change its name to "____ of Prophecy" showing that it represents "The Mountebank"/"The Juggler"/"The Magician" whilst keeping the word "Spellbook" in its name.  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 14:06, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well i noticed that some archetypes/series has 1 or 2 member that has different naming format than other members like "Hieratic Seal of the Sun Dragon Overlord" for the Hieratics since the usual name format of Hieratics is "Hierartic Dragon of (name)" so i guess that Batel will be the one with different format to include its "Spellbook" name. but then again Spellbook is also part of the Prophecy archetype so maybe Batel wont include "Spellbook" in its name. --SharkTenjo
We only put them up because Konami said so - but for this card's full name, Konami didn't make any declare of how exact the name will be. So this have to put on the hold till Konami publish on the site. Now hold your horse and let's see what they can do with this monster; I don't think they will apprentice the "Hanged Man" part - only Anime can tackling that. --iFredCat 14:23, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
I'd simply suggest "Spellbook Magician of Prophecy" for Batel. Really, the inconsistency with this archetype is no more jarring than with any other type that's been released before, so I see no need to make an exception for the "Prophecy" archetype when it comes to choosing appropriate TCG names. We've got like a 5% accuracy level when it comes to guessing any other card's name, and that hasn't stopped us yet. I will suggest on holding off on renaming any members from REDU who haven't been revealed yet, but we should go ahead for Abyss Rising cards, such as this one. --Golden Key (talkcontribs) 14:29, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
That's exact what I liked to see. Anything that don't reveal should wait. --iFredCat 14:37, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

So you're basically saying: "Let's go ahead and name it with the best thing that we can come up with even though we only have a 5% confidence level. It has never stopped us before.". While it is true that unreleased card articles have often followed this form of reasoning, though this usually results in multiple page moves and the often unavoidable edit wars. Truthfully, I'm not sure I can agree with that.  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 14:39, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Oh no. Page moves. The horror. If disagreements ever get to "war" levels, pages can be locked, and discussion can be moved to talk pages. The Prophecy archetype is no more exceptional than any other, so we either stop choosing names based on TCG members for all archetypes or we continue what has been working just fine for us for years. --Golden Key (talkcontribs) 14:55, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
I agreed further with Goldy - Sartorius' Tarot Cards are not same as this Prophecy Tarot Cards; though they used same reference but they are complete separate and different from each other, as well as Z-One's cards. So it's better off leave them as they are right now and wait till Konami release them - if you still disagreed; have a good day behind the bar. --iFredCat 15:02, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, this is probably the biggest archetype cluster**** since "Archfiend". I'm sort of at a loss for what to do here. I would usually support changing them all to use the new word, but it's just very complicated to word it in a way that makes everything clear enough. That said, I don't think keeping it the way it is is making it any more clear either, since we have pages at both "Magical" and "Prophecy". Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 16:56, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
It's now Prophecy, Cheesy... Magical is just previous translation theme for "Prophecy". Why not merging them together? --iFredCat 17:03, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
I know. Isn't this discussion about whether or not to move the rest (because of wording issues with what to call each article, not because of the either archetype name). Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 17:04, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

All I'm saying is that we don't have to be so eager to rename [魔導術士ラパンデ] (Magical Practitioner Le Pendu) ---> "Hanged Man of Prophecy". This goes also for the remaining "Prophecy" cards that have not debuted.

  • Leave it as it is, visitors will note the oddness and find out that this card hasn't debuted with a TCG name.
  • Rename it immediately to our best guess, possibility of multiple page moves and edit wars. Not to mention, confusion for the visitors. For example, Day 1: "Hanged Man of Prophecy", Day 2: "Le Pendu of Prophecy", Day 3: "Lependu of Prophecy", etc.....

Usually I would allow a name change for the cards that haven't debuted yet, but not this time. Like what Cheesedude said, the way that Konami (TCG) is naming things right now is not consistent enough for us to just follow all the English names for the Tarot cards.  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 17:08, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Fine, but no more change after this, period. --iFredCat 17:24, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
Konami has never been consistent when it comes to naming. This name is a reasonable choice based on 3 of the 4 monsters we know for the TCG. The pages can be locked in the unlikely event edit warring occurs, and worst case scenario we have a few redirects to this page, same as with every other card on the site. We should move the others accordingly. --Golden Key (talkcontribs) 17:35, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

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