This is the talk page for discussing the page, Orichalcos Shunoros. | |
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NOTE: all previous discussions were kept below. What follows is an attempt to explain the effects of Orichalcos Shunoros as seen during the Yu-Gi-Oh! second series anime:
Does "Orichalcos Kyutora" Negate Effect Damage?[]
(Mpanty 23:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC))
Reasons for NO:
- "Ring of Destruction" deals Effect Damage, which is not negated by Kyutora.
- Episode 178, Dartz's turn at the bottom:
- Seto activates Trap Card "Ring of Destruction": it destroys Dartz's "Mirror Knight Calling" and deals damage to Seto and Dartz equal to its ATK, i.e. 500 damage (Dartz: 10500 → 10000 Life Points) (Seto: 3500 → 3000 Life Points).
- Episode 178, Dartz's turn at the bottom:
(Possible) Reasons for YES:
- "Mirror Force Dragon's" damage to Dartz is prevented.
- Episode 180, Seto's turn:
- Seto uses "Mirror Force Dragon" to attack "Mirror Knight Pegasus", it reflects the attack back at "Mirror Force Dragon", which in turn absorbs its power and reflects it back again at every one of Dartz's monsters, destroying them. "Orichalcos Kyutora" is shown to absorb any damage to Dartz before it is destroyed.
- COUNTER-ARGUMENT: Due to the particular way "Mirror Force" is handled during the entire course of the anime, the damage dealt by "Mirror Force Dragon" in this case is considered by the animators as Battle Damage.
- Think of "Mirror Force Dragon" as "reflecting" the attack back to all of Dartz's monsters. Therefore its 2800 ATK is subtracted from the ATK of each of Dartz's monsters: Dartz is dealt 2800-500=2300 damage for each of his "Mirror Knight Tokens" (excluding "Mirror Knight Pegasus" who has 2800 ATK due to its own effect) + 2300 damage for Kyutora. This is the only way in which a perfect total of 19500 is achieved (then add +500 ATK due to "The Seal of Orichalcos" and you have Shunoros's final ATK power of 20000) (for further reference, see Talk:Orichalcos Kyutora).
- Episode 180, Seto's turn:
Does "Orichalcos Shunoros" have 0 DEF?[]
(Mpanty 23:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC))
Most likely, YES.
- In the original Japanese anime of Episode 180, Dartz says (verbatim): "Its attack strength will be determined by the damage absorbed by Orichalcos Kyutora. So, the attack strength of Orichalcos Shunoros is..." (scene cuts to LP counter displaying 20000). In the English Dub, the scene where Dartz says these words is deleted and the episode cuts to the LP counter directly (without offering any explanation).
- The real-life version of "Orichalcos Shunoros" has ? ATK / 0 DEF stats. Even though the special abilities of the card are radically different, is very likely the ATK/DEF values were modeled on the anime version. Hence a DEF value of zero (0).
How is "Orichalcos Shunoros's" ATK affected by "Orichalcos Dexia" and "Orichalcos Aristeros"?[]
(Mpanty 23:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC))
In abstract terms, Dexia and Aristeros are Shunoros's arms, and thus "draw their power" from the main body.
In practical terms, whenever Dexia and Aristeros battle a monster their ATK or DEF increases by that monster's ATK or DEF power (depending who is attacking and who is defending) + an extra 300 points. The ATK or DEF Dexia or Aristeros gain (including the 300 extra points), comes straight out of Shunoros's ATK:
- Episode 181, Dartz's turn:
- Uses "Orichalcos Dexia" to attack Yami's "Obnoxious Celtic Guardian". Thanks to its special ability, "Orichalcos Dexia" gains ATK equal to the DEF of the Defense Position monster it's battling + an extra 300 ATK ("Orichalcos Dexia": 500 → 1200 → 1500 ATK / 0 DEF). Yami activates Trap Card "Soul Shield": he pays half his LP (Yami: 4300 → 2150 Life Points) to negate all Battle Damage to him and "Obnoxious Celtic Guardian" and end the Battle Phase. "Orichalcos Shunoros's" second special effect activates: its power drops by the ATK "Orichalcos Dexia" just gained while battling, i.e. 1500 ("Orichalcos Shunoros": 17200 → 15700 ATK / 0 DEF).
- Episode 181, Yami's turn:
- Uses "Legendary Knight Timaeus" to attack Dartz's "Orichalcos Aristeros". Thanks to its special ability, "Orichalcos Aristeros" gains DEF equal to that of the monster it's battling + an extra 300 DEF ("Orichalcos Aristeros": 0 ATK / 0 → 2800 → 3100 DEF). Both monsters survive and Yami is dealt 300 damage in Battle Damage (Yami: 1150 → 850 Life Points). "Orichalcos Shunoros's" second special effect activates: its ATK drops by the DEF "Orichalcos Aristeros" just gained while battling, i.e. 3100 ("Orichalcos Shunoros": 15200 → 12100 ATK / 0 DEF).
How is "Orichalcos Shunoros's" ATK affected when it battles a monster?[]
(Mpanty 23:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC))
If "Orichalcos Shunoros" battles a monster, after Damage Calculation the ATK of "Orichalcos Shunoros" decreases by an amount equal to that monster's ATK.
- Episode 180, Seto Kaiba's turn at the bottom:
- Dartz activates Trap Card "Martyr Curse": Seto's "Mirror Force Dragon's" special abilities are negated and it is forced battle with "Orichalcos Shunoros". "Mirror Force Dragon" is destroyed (Seto: 600 → 0 Life Points). Seto loses. "Orichalcos Shunoros's" third special effect activates: its power drops by the ATK of the monster it just battled i.e. 2800 ("Orichalcos Shunoros": 20000 → 17200 ATK / 0 DEF) (NOTE: in the anime, this effect is never fully explained).
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Previous Discussions[]
Attack Depletion when Shunoros Battles?[]
I dont recall it losing attack points when it was struck..besides if a monster attacked it the attacking monster's controller would lose the rest of their lifepoints unless they had like 40,000 lifepoints left.
- I've watched this ep recently. When Shu or one of its arms battles, Shu loses ATK (from its 20,000) equal to the ATK of the monster that was battled with. (Yes, I know that I'm ending my sentence with a preposition. Shame on me -=^-^=-) If Shu attacked, the opponent would take leftover damage, but not if Shu was attacked. Sabre Knight 01:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
- I watched the episodes and whenever Orichalcos Dexia attacked or whenever Orichalcos Aristeros was attacked Orichalcos Shunoros lost ATK equal to the ATK of the opposing monster. This did not happen when Orichalcos Shunoros itself attacked though.--64.79.177.254 16:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
- Yes it did. See Episode 180, Seto Kaiba's turn at the bottom. Copied and pasted below: (Mpanty 22:52, 22 August 2009 (UTC))
- Dartz activates Trap Card "Martyr Curse": Seto's "Mirror Force Dragon's" special abilities are negated and it is forced battle with "Orichalcos Shunoros". "Mirror Force Dragon" is destroyed (Seto: 600 → 0 Life Points). Seto loses. "Orichalcos Shunoros's" third special effect activates: its power drops by the ATK of the monster it just battled i.e. 2800 ("Orichalcos Shunoros": 20000 → 17200 ATK / 0 DEF) (NOTE: in the anime, this effect is never fully explained).
- Yes it did. See Episode 180, Seto Kaiba's turn at the bottom. Copied and pasted below: (Mpanty 22:52, 22 August 2009 (UTC))
Orichalcos Kyutora and Effect Damage[]
Since someone just undid my last edit I figured I'd explain it. Orichalcos Kyutora does not negate Effect Damage as seen when Kaiba used Ring of Destruction to destroy Mirror Knight Calling Dartz still took 500 damage even through Orichalcos Kyutora was on his side of the field. Therefor I don't see why Orichalcos Shunoros's effect should say "This card's original ATK and DEF are equal to the total amount of Battle Damage and Effect Damage negated by Orichalcos Kyutora." because Orichalcos Kyutora can't negate Effect Damage.--64.79.177.254 17:07, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
- Mirror Force Dragon inflicts Effect Damage, But Orichalcos Kyutora negated it.--78.133.76.48 07:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, due to the particular way "Mirror Force" is handled during the entire course of the anime, the damage dealt by "Mirror Force Dragon" in this case was considered by the animators as Battle Damage. Think of "Mirror Force Dragon" as "reflecting" the attack back to all of Dartz's monsters. In any case, "Ring of Destruction" most definitely IS Effect Damage and "Orichalcos Kyutora" did NOT negate it. That should be proof enough. (Mpanty 22:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC))
What?[]
How Can You Summon This guy in TCG/OCG Orichalcos Kyutora Hasnt Been Released!
- Massive effect modification my friend