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Token rulings

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While I was play testing a few decks for the upcoming format, I came upon the following situation:

Opponent: Has JD on field

My side: I have 2 tokens from dandylion and a facedown Starlight road.

Opponent activates JD's effect to nuke the field. Since I have 2 tokens i SHOULD be able to chain my starlight road to negate and destroy JD.

My friend argued that tokens do not count as cards and therefore starlight road cannot be chained to their destruction. --Amilgaoulx (talkcontribs) 05:11, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

"Token Monsters are fundamentally treated as Normal Monster Cards in every respect. Anything that you can generally do on the field with a face-up "Skull Servant", you can do with a Token Monster (unless an effect specifically forbids it). You can even equip a Token Monster to "Relinquished"."-- HHTurtle Talk   06:34, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

For me, I think that starlight road wouldn't work on JD cause I heard on the show once that tokens do not count as "cards". I may be wrong, but I do agree that tokens count as monsters, just not monster cards. It's mainly about the text of the card effect.--ILOD (talkcontribs) 08:09, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I just bolded the most important part of the ruling. Token Monsters are treated as Normal Monster Cards while on the field for all purposes of the duel so they will still count for the "2 or more cards you control..." that would be destroyed.-- HHTurtle Talk   08:15, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I see. One thing I've always been wondering though is: Is it possible to target a token with magical hats then? And if yes, then how does that all work out? lol.--ILOD (talkcontribs) 08:22, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

"Token Monsters cannot be flipped face-down. This is their only on-the-field restriction. Thus, they cannot be targeted by effects that flip cards face-down (like "Book of Moon"), and they are unaffected by "blanket" effects that flip Monster Cards face-down; You carry out as many actions that the effect requires, short of flipping the Token Monster face-down; Cards like "Swords of Concealing Light" will still cause the Token Monsters to shift to Defense Position, however."

Token Monsters cannot be face-down so you cannot target it with the effect of Magical Hats.-- HHTurtle Talk   08:25, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Why are we getting so many questions about old cards that work weirdly?
"Magical Hats" flips the monster face-down if possible; it doesn't have to. It's just a bonus, like with "Stardust Dragon" destroying the card. You can select a Token Monster, and the Token Monster will just be shuffled and shifted to DEF Mode. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 17:56, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
Err, you shouldn't be able to target a Token that cannot exist face-down with Magical Hats's effect.
The TCG have a very old Ruling though that is saying that Magical Hats's can target a monster, but we agreed that it is outdated and go with the new ruling HHTurtle posted.
ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 08:11, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
Err, I think that you meant to link to the JERP?
That's an odd ruling, considering how you can activate "Magical Hats" if "Light of Intervention" is active, in both _CGs. *shrugs* I guess that it's just an old card that doesn't make much sense?
What TCG ruling are you talking about?
Also, "Magical Hats" doesn't target. You select everything at resolution. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 16:29, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
Lol! I linked my translator! Hahahaha!
I'll say that Light of Intervention is the weird one not Magical Hats. The Shallow Grave can also be activated with Light of Intervention on the field.
Testing also shows that you can activate Magical Hats with Light of Intervention on the field, and that you cannot target a Token monster.
I meant those old TCG Rulings.
Oups! Thank goodness that Masterdramon isn't here! ;)
ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 16:53, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
Huh, that's odd. The main page for "Magical Hats" on the Wiki says that it doesn't target, and the text implies that it doesn't target ("Select two monsters from your Deck and one monster on your field", so you should select them all at the same time). The main page for "Magical Hats" actually has references, so I'm going to follow that. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 17:49, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
Well, if I'm translating this ruling correctly it is saying:
"The cards, other than the monster, that are Special Summoned from the Deck are selected during the effect's resolution."
If Magical Hats didn't targeted, then this ruling shouldn't be excluding the monster.
ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 18:26, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

You translated that correctly. Then, I assume that the correct answer for "Magical Hats vs Token Monsters" can be extrapolated from the "Swords of Concealing Light vs Token Monsters" scenario. You can activate Magical Hats with a Token Monster, the Token Monster and 2 cards from the deck are selected during resolution of the effect, the 2 cards will be in face-down defense position and the Token Monster will be in face-up defense position.

By the way, who is Masterdramon? Another wikia user from the past?-- HHTurtle Talk   12:15, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

It's this person. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:20, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I don't have a Pojo account but I did check one of the links that ATEMVEGETA posted and I saw that he was the one who came up with the list of cards that target. Then, I saw that he listed Magical Hats as one of them and I started wondering about its credibility issue...-- HHTurtle Talk   12:29, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wait a sec! If my translation is correct, then the ruling says that only the S/T cards in the Deck are selected during the effect's resolution. It excludes the monster ("other than the monster").
Swords of Concealing Light doesn't target the Tokens so it can be activated and only the other monsters on the field will be flipped face-down. The Tokens will only switched to Defense Position.
ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 15:03, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. Then the correct answer should be extrapolated from the "Book of Moon vs Token Monsters" scenario. You cannot target a Token Monster with the effect of Magical Hats.-- HHTurtle Talk   15:44, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

*headdesk* ... yeah, it should target the monster. Sorry about that, I'm an idiot.
Masterdramon is the guy who maintains The Big Grand List of Things that Target. He's very serious when it comes to targeting. (Well, he's more "srs >:|" than "serious", but whatever.)
--Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 15:53, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

As you can see by the strikeouts that I have used, I was also confused. I think I have changed my answer a few times through the course of the arguments. Still, I'm glad that all was cleared. This "Masterdramon" guy is great. Does he still maintain the list?-- HHTurtle Talk   15:57, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Yep, he still maintains the list and everything. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 14:34, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

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