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Hello again! It is I, Bashfrog, here to torment you once again, like a ghost haunting a children's card game, but a frog. Let's be honest, you don't stand a ghost of a chance. But anyway, I decided to start looking more into my beloved Madolce cards by looking at games played with Madolche decks on youtube, and besides learning things such as I'm not using the right cards (disputable), everyone has a cool game mat but me (disputable), and pro players move their hands really fast for no reason (I'm not sure if shuffling your hand repeatedly makes much sense), I saw something interesting. Do you remember that time when I asked about Xyz ability resolve order? I know I barely do. As I remember (I think), it was stated that the ability happens first, then the xyz material is six feeted (Term I just made up for being send to the graveyard). Strangely enough, I watched a video of a tournament game where the Madolche user had just summoned Madolche Queen Tiaramisu, which as you all know, should be bowed down to at all times. After summoning, he detached an xyz material, which happened to be Madolche Magileine (He had three in his deck, which if ebay and amazon mean anything, is around 24 dollars ._.) But the xyz material went to the graveyard before the effect happened. Then they used that xyz material as a target for the ability. At first, I didn't know what I was seeing. I went back to see it again, and sure enough, it was right there, and no one had an issue with it.
What does this mean? With pendulum this, and pendulum that (I'm firmly in the opinion that the new mechanics and cards are near-broken), it may not seem to matter much, but this means that I now have the evidence I needed to abuse my Queen Tiramisu (I will never call it by the actual name) to the highest degree possible. You can join me, my brethren. All you must do is proclaim Madolche as the one true archetype. Or you can just find some other way to abuse this finding. I'm still not entirely sure if this is accepted in any official setting, but just clocking in my hours as the wiki's worst investigator/madolche acolyte. So, comments? (Also, why does no one get madolche here? No offense, but it's lonely having the powers of rebirth all to yourself.
What did we (I) learn today?
- 1 Detach happens after the targeting, but before the actual effect occurs.
- 2 There are a lot of terms and cards getting thrown around that I don't know about, so maybe we should add a simple set of rules or exceptions to the wiki so this doesn't happen.
- 3 I really should edit the Madolche page. The anti-Rescue Rabbit rage grows with every breath.
Bashfrog (talk • contribs) 07:35, October 13, 2014 (UTC)Bashfrog
- The sending of the material is a cost, which is paid when you first activate the ability. We know this because it comes before the semicolon (";"). The targeting of the cards in the Graveyard is also a cost, but it happens after the material is detached (that's what the "then" means) and so the material is a legal target. That's basic PSCT.
- However, it's also my understanding that you can't pay the first half of the cost (the detaching) unless you can already pay the second half of the cost (the targeting). That means you can't activate Tiaramisu unless there's already a target in the grave (which the material wouldn't be, at that point), but once you do the material is a legal target. I can't find a ruling to support that though, so it would be good if someone could confirm or deny that. Emmic (talk • contribs) 08:15, October 13, 2014 (UTC)
Yup. Forgot to mention that. Mostly because ever since I realized Queenie targets any madolche card in the graveyard I don't find it hard to get that one card requirement. As such, a two-card shuffle should occur every time you detach, which to me is where my findings feel a bit strange. Bashfrog (talk • contribs) 08:29, October 13, 2014 (UTC)Bashfrog
- The closest thing I can find in the rulings is "Darkflare Dragon": "If there is already an eligible target for the effect of "Darkflare Dragon", the Dragon-Type monster sent from the hand or Deck to the Graveyard as a cost can be targeted by this effect." The emphasis here is on the first part that requires there already be a valid target. It's still a weird dichotomy in the rules, though. I hope they address it one day to eliminate the confusion. --Eps01 (talk • contribs) 08:55, October 13, 2014 (UTC)
Oh, and I just saw another example today: Machina Fortress (I happen to have the card). I happened to come upon the information that you can use it's effect (sending machine type monsters from your hand to the graveyard whose levels equal 8 or more to special summon it from the hand or graveyard) on itself thanks to the lack of exception text. So basically, you six feet Fortress (Level 7) then discard any machine you want, then get to special summon it with only one meager sacrifice required. Similar to every other case of ridiculousness, there's no reason to not do this unless you don't know (or you can trigger another effect with the discard- imagine a machine madolche) Bashfrog (talk • contribs) 15:06, October 13, 2014 (UTC)Bashfrog