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- That would work, since the timing is still right to activate "Torrential Tribute". "Yubel" would miss the timing. --Deus Ex Machina 19:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
so lucky to have another person online in the "right timing"Neos lover 19:39, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
? I don't get it.
That's never the case when someone summons a monster and activates Torrential. The summoned monster dies, normally.
Yubel summoned > Scapegoat chains > Torrential Tribute chains
So then what exactly happens..? How does Yubel "escape" Torrential in this case? Sorry if this is already "common sense" stuff. I only recently found out Bottomless Trap Hole can actually take Jinzo out. --Eminentjonfrost 17:26, 29 May 2008
- 1. BTH can't take out Jinzo. Whoever told you that is trying to cheat. 2. It misses the timing because the last action to resolve is Scapegoat. Danny Lilithborne 06:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- In the above example, your opponent's "Yubel" cannot activate her effect to summon "Yubel - Terror Incarnate" since the last thing to happen is "Scapegoat" Summoning "Sheep Token"s. "Yubel" misses the timing for her effect to activate. Also, please sign your post with four tildes (~~~~~) --Deus Ex Machina With Impeccible Timing 06:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Bottomless cannot chain to Jinzo's summon and remove it? I guess this also means Dust Tornado cannot be chained Royal Decree to destroy it...? Grrr... I'm so confused now. XD
Eminentjonfrost 01:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC) EminentJonFrost
- No, because you cannot chain to a Summoning - it does not have a spell speed. You can chain to Royal Decree's activation because that has a spell speed. Summoning Jinzo does not. (However, if he's being Special Summoned by a card effect, you can chain to that.) Danny Lilithborne 03:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
the trick is: activate two things fast before your opponent can chain to the first. Mini neos 15:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Uh... lol? I can't tell if that's a joke or not. No matter what, you and your opponent are allowed to respond to every single thing the other does, minus priority. You can't win just because you can talk and move your hands fast. Zeek Aran 21:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
then i dont see why your opponent cant chain to yubel if you activate scapegoat!
- There is no effect that "Yubel" has that you can chain Scapegoat to. Danny Lilithborne 18:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
why does yubel miss the timing? it gets destroyed, so i think its effect activates.
- Yubel is an optional effect. Yubel 2 doesn't automatically get summoned if Yubel is destroyed, you have to choose to activate that effect, and things like that only work if Yubel being destroyed is the last thing to happen. In this case, it is not; Scapegoat's effect is. Danny Lilithborne 18:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- Read the page on Missing the Timing (as well as some of the examples it gives) for more information. --Deus Ex Machina 19:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Oooooh! Ok! I think I finally understand now.
Scapegoat beat Yubel to the field because it was "chained" (please don't flame me over terminology, but feel free to correct =) ) and so has priority over Yubel's summoning, and so hits the field first. And since that counts as a summoning, you activate torrential and clear the field of the goats and the opponent's monsters, and then Yubel finally gets to the field. Sweet combo. =D
Question though: Doesn't Scapegoat say monsters cannot be summoned after it's activation and so... this can't be done? How does that little bit work?
Eminentjonfrost 13:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
- You're overcomplicating things. But you're right; Scapegoat prohibits other kinds of summons on that turn anyway. Still, if you activated some other quickplay spell or trap that summoned something to the field, or any quickplay spell or trap to be precise, you would miss the timing and be unable to summon Yubel 2. Danny Lilithborne 14:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh ok. =) Glad to know Yubel isn't (technically) invincible now. I pretty much thought it was game over as soon as that guy hit the field. Scapegoat! Get back in the deck! lol Eminentjonfrost 15:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
When are the availibilities to activate Needle Ceiling in the duel? Like can i activate it if the opponet activates the 4th card and then I activate Needle Ceiling?
- "Needle Ceiling" can only be activated when there are 4 or more monsters on the field. If your opponent Summons a monster, then you can activate "Needle Ceiling" in response to the Summon, at the same time that you would activate "Ring of Destruction". --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 03:36, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
In the senerio of the first post, Yubel wouldnt miss it's timing since the last thing to happen would be her destruction since you can't chain to her summon with scapegoat. ~Xuin 5:24, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Does the entire chain have to resolve before Yubel's effect can be activated? If so, it does miss the timing. This is the way I see it;
- Player 1 summons Yubel.
- Player 2 activates Scapegoat in response.
- Player 1 declines to chain to Scapegoat.
- Player 2 chains Torrential Tribute to Scapegoat (Not missing the timing, because Yubel's summoning was the last action to resolve; Scapegoat hasn't resolved yet).
Now, in reverse order:
- Torrential Tribute resolves, destroying Yubel (And any other monsters on the field).
- (This is where the issue is. If the entire Chain needs to resolve before Yubel's effect activates, it misses the timing because...)
- Scapegoat resolves, summoning 4 Sheep Tokens.
- Yubel's controller misses the timing to activate her effect, because the last action to resolve on the field was the summoning of the 4 Sheep Tokens.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the OP was correct. Yubel misses the timing and can't activate. 18.104.22.168 19:11, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Ok I see that its still not really getting through, you can't chain anything to a summon, once Yubel is summoned you have a choice of using torrent since its activation requirment has been met but its not responding to her summon then, wether its you or your opponent, if you choose not to or your opponent doesn't activate Torrential and then if either of you decide to activate scapegoat that's a brand new chain and you can no longer activate torrential to Yubel because torrential just missed its timing then scapegoat resolves then you can activate Torrential then every monster on field is destroyed then Yubel can activate her effect. The only way Yubel would miss her timing is if your opponent summons Yubel uses priority to activate thier torrential and then you chain your own torrential or any other monster destroying card to destroy Yubel with. ~Xuin 23:24, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Re-read the first paragraph of the page on "Missing the Timing." It says that you can activate the effect if the trigger condition was the last thing to occur. But, and I'm quoting it here, "activating cards & effects that haven’t resolved yet doesn’t count." So if your opponent summons Yubel, the summon was the last event to occur. You activate Scapegoat, but then chain Torrential Tribute. Scapegoat is Chain Link 1 of a chain that hasn't resolved yet. So the last action to have resolved on the field would be the summon of Yubel. This makes it perfectly legal to chain Torrential Tribute. Yes, it seems odd, but you haven't missed the timing for the TT. Now the chain resolves, with Torrential Tribute destroying Yubel. Yubel's effect can't activate in the middle of a resolving chain, though. Even if it could, it's Spell Speed 1, and Scapegoat is Spell Speed 2. Now Scapegoat resolves, summoning 4 Sheep Tokens, Since Yubel's destruction is no longer the last effect on the field to have resolved, Yubel's controller has missed the timing (Through no fault of their own, though).
I hope I explained it thoroughly enough there, I went overboard and accidentally wrote a novel. XD
And, of course, I forgot to sign. D'oh! 22.214.171.124 00:14, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Never mind I retrack all my statements cause I now understand How it all works out and yes it does work Yubel does miss the timing, sorry for the waste of time. ~Xuin 00:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Don't apologize, it's cool. In fact, I like questions like these. They're good mental exercise and good practice if you're trying to learn the intricacies of the rules (To become a judge or something). =D 126.96.36.199 02:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
This might be considered spam but....
The workings of chains, spell speeds and missing the timing are the most confusing and least intuitive rules in yu-gi-oh.
Along with ambiguous wording such as "discarding" picked up cards that haven't been drawn and haven't been added to the hand ("send to graveyard" should be used instead),they are what prevent this game from being as truly enjoyable as it otherwise would be for me.
I've previously played another game called magic the gathering which yu-gi-oh is indirectly based on.
That has something like chains called the stack. just like with chains players take turns adding spells and effects to the stack until both players are finished. Just like chains the stack then starts to resolve, starting with the last effect played. the *difference* is that after each effect is resolved players have the chance to add something else.
instead of 3 spell speeds, there are cards and effects only playable on your own turn, and cards and effects playable on either, simple enough no?
The other feature that game had that I wish yu-gi-oh did also was the use of codewords for commonly used effects, that way space could be saved on cards, making them easier to read, and allowing for extra effects if desired. for example "When this attacking monster attacks a defense position monster and the attack of this monster is greater than the defense of the the defending monster, inflict the difference as combat damage " could be shortened to " this monster has piercing damage" or even "piercing damage" or "piercing"
Edit: it doesn't help that some cards with multiple effects do them simultaneously and others in sequence and that if in sequence only the second can be responded to.